Another update from GLS regular Reg Hartner on Detroit’s offseason.
I just got word that the MAAC has released their preseason all-conference team. While I don’t have the full list yet, I do know that 3 Titans were honored. The MAAC only does a first team w/ no 2nd team nor honorable mention, so I tend to think these awards actually carry a little more weight. None of these 3 received first team all-conference honors for the MAAC’s 2011 post season awards so this is a great sign that the rest of the coaches in the league are starting to acknowledge what they are building in Detroit.
- Jamie Hebden, Junior Defense from Brother Rice
Voted 2nd team All MAAC and named the team’s defensive MVP as a sophomore. Jamie was recently named one of the team’s captains for the 2012 season and will anchor the close defense for the Titans in 2012. He has built his reputation as a dangerous takeaway defenseman that will always draw the opponent’s top attackman. Even facing the other team’s best he was fifth in the country in caused turnovers overall (40) and per game (2.5). - Jordan Houtby, Junior LSM from Holy Cross Secondary (ON)
Voted 2nd team All MAAC, MAAC LSM of the year and Detroit Titans team MVP. He was all over the field on faceoff wings, rides, clears, man down and his usual defensive responsibilities. He was second in the nation with 3.25 caused turnovers per game and 11th in ground balls picking up 6.06 per game. Houtby also chipped in 4 goals and 2 assists with the game winning goals against Siena and the Marist (the latter being in the MAAC semifinals). - AJ Levell, Junior Goalie from Dublin Scioto (OH)
Third-year starter, named 2nd team All MAAC last year with the conference’s 2nd best save percentage (.521) and 179 saves on the year. Even had an assist on a long clearing pass on a Scott Harris goal. A big time goalie that thrives and makes big saves under pressure and in big games.
Last year’s post season first team attackman and MAAC rookie of the year Shayne Adams was somehow left off the list. My hunch is that it’s politics and coaches were more likely to vote for upperclassmen than a sophomore, but what do I know. As long as his damaged knee is on schedule to return I fully expect him to be on the post season awards list. I could see Joel Matthews, Jason McDonald, Ty Maruyama and Tim Lehto also getting some post season love, but the season is a long way off – and postseason awards even further.
It’s an incredible statement that the rest of the league realizes that Coach Kolon has built a solid defensive unit and they are expecting even bigger accomplishments out of the Titans this year. You put your Goalie, LSM and top D on 1st team and people are noticing. Ranking towards the top of the nation in both caused turnovers and ground balls wasn’t a fluke.
Preseason rankings were released too. The Titans are ranked #2 in the MAAC and per Inside Lacrosse they are the #49 team in D1. Right behind first year varsity program Michigan ranked #48. Apparently that Man of the Year award for JP is giving them a bump in the rankings. Michigan is also ranked higher than their fall ball opponents Providence and St Joseph’s. So yeah…I’m not putting too much stock into the Inside Lacrosse rankings if they think that Michigan is ranked higher than a team that rolled them 9-5 in fall ball.
So you think a Lacrosse Magazine award for JP influenced Inside Lacrosse in their Faceoff Yearbook rankings, which would have had to go to press before Lacrosse Mag came out with their award? I agree that UM is not #48, but the two have nothing to do with each other. Inside Lacrosse also ranked Brother Rice #1 in the nation a few years ago. I’d say they lost all of their ranking credibility back then. You could even argue that Detroit’s #49 ranking is BS since their only fall scrimmage was a loss to a D3 team.
Good news for the Detroit players that were acknowledged. They deserve it. I’m really surprised Adams wasn’t honored. I’ll be shocked if Matthews doesn’t end up on the post-season list.
Andy,
You’re right. The rankings don’t hold a lot of water. My comments were made tongue in cheek. My thoughts were that we have a history to look at for UDM and have seen pretty much their entire team and coaching staff in action. They didn’t have a real fall ball schedule so I’m more likely to look at what they did last year than what the did this fall.
Michigan’s resume is only their fall ball action so I’m not going to base their 2012 success on it, but it’s all I have to work with for now.
And the 2008 Rice national championship is great for us to debate, but holds about as much credibility as BCS rankings. We know there are agendas and outside influences and since we can’t settle it on the field it’s the best we’ve got. Rice had a special team that year and could have competed w/ the top dogs out East. If not for the 300 mile rule we could have maybe seen a +1 for them.
Reg, tongue-in-cheek sentiments aside, perhaps Michigan’s higher ranking is based on a stronger strength of schedule versus that of UDM.
SOS would come into rankings if they were both 10 games in at say…5-5. Preseason I don’t think it would have much to do w/ it.
The challenge is that it’s tough enough to see all the football teams and every game is televised. Unless you’re Hopkins, Cuse or an ACC team you’re not on TV much if at all. I would bet most of the voters have never seen UDM play a game let alone got a copy of one of the Michigan Fall Ball games. I’m picking on the rankings, but I can’t pick on the voters because they don’t have a lot to work with.
My comment about JP’s award giving them the bump was because they have been front and center in the lacrosse world a lot in the last month w/ JP on the cover on IL and LM. Michigan is a brand and they have gotten lot’s of good press lately. That could be where the bump came from. I’ll admit I’m wrong if they come out and win 6 games this year. They have an amazing schedule for a seasoned team let alone for a 1st year team.
Fortunately, we’ll get a chance to see the two in-state teams settle it on the field.
Amen. Feb 12th is circled on the calender for many of us.
I doubt IL takes strength of schedule into account, but who knows? I think they are probably just as caught up in the excitement of Michigan adding lacrosse as so many other people are.
I also don’t know of anyone who thinks that UM is going to beat UDM in year one. At least nobody who’s admitted that around me. Year two maybe, but I doubt it. Eventually it will become one-sided in UM’s favor. With their resources, coaching and draw there’s no way that isn’t the end-game. UDM should get theirs while they can.
You can count me as someone who think’s UDM’s odds of beating UM this year are no better than 50-50. Sure there is a fair amount of Michigan Lacrosse hype, but I think a lot of locals are also buying into a bit of UDMercy-mania as well.
If Michigan was starting from complete scratch (as UDM did), then of course this would be a no-brainer in favor of the Titans. However, Michigan has a tremendous background for a first-year varsity team. The Wolverines were no ordinary club team, had a respectable Fall Ball, and the freshmen are not typical “club-caliber-turned-varsity” players (They were in fact de facto varsity recruits).
Bottom line, Michigan isn’t as bad as some people think…and (unfortunately) UDM isn’t as good as some people think as well. Futhermore, it will be the first game of the season, so anything can happen. To me, that makes for a good, competitive matchup that could go either way.
I’d love to understand how you think these are “de facto d1 recruits.” JP has been on record several times stating he specifically told his recruits they weren’t division 1 recruits and were recruited as MCLA Club players.
I see the #1 CTO team in the nation, the team that ended the 2nd longest home winning streak in the nation, the team that ended the longest conference winning streak, the team- who in their 3rd year made it to their conference championship game, the team who graduated only a BACK-UP and the team that has the division 1 lacrosse speed experience beating Michigan by 10 next year. 5 the next, 3 the next, and then the Michigan take-over happens. But we’ll see February 12th. I bet Jordan Houtby has 8 CTOs, matthews has 4 and 2 and Adams has 3gs.
Michigan simply isn’t good. they’ve attempted to turn two second line HIGH SCHOOL SS MIDFIELDERS from CC into LSMs. Why? Because they are so inept at the pole position.
I’m not saying UDM is a top 20 team by any means, but for you to suggest there’s “UD-Mania” of any sort is idiotic. It’s almost as if all their improvement from last year has been forgotten because a “storied” club program has jumped to division 1. I don’t think anyone around here as really started to talk about detroit. But it’s clear that the teams that got to really see Detroit last year (the MAAC) respect them enough to place them second in conference. I’d say they have a pretty impressive schedule for being a lowley MAAC team without a “brand.” They play Delaware, OSU, UNC, Georgetown, Siena and the rest of the MAAC. That’s a pretty good schedule. I have a feeling Michigan’s team won’t seem too complex after they play OSU and Delaware a week before.
Fun fact that’s completely irrelevant: a back-up freshmen attackmen for UDM, torched a Michigan starting defense-men for 5 goals in a summer ball championship game.. that stat is as meaningful as anything IL posts from now on.
I’m buying my tix for February 12th as soon as they go on sale, as it’s going to be sold out. If you want to find me, i’ll be the one saying I told you so at the upstairs bar.
To say that UDM only graduated a backup is a bit misleading. They graduated Tim Shoemaker, and lost Matt Gregson (I’ve heard he was booted from the team for violation of team rules).
Matt Gregson was one of their best players offensively over the program’s history. After 12 games he had 11 goals and 4 assists. Any double digit scorer is hard to replace.
Shoemaker played many roles last year but was predominantly the second LSM. The stats for last year, though, show him playing in 14 games and starting 8. I realize his primary role was as a second to Houtby, but saying he was a backup is misleading. He was a significant player on that team last year.
That being said…. losing only two players in a year is great for any D1 team.
Again, not entering this debate, just correcting factual errors when I hear them.
Just to clarify on the Gregson/Shoemaker roles. Gregson was the team’s offensive leaders in year 1 when they were all transfers and freshman. Year 2 his role diminished as we saw the recruits starting to step up and take charge of the team. Year 3 he was completely passed by the recruits and relegated to a role player. He wasn’t happy with it and unfortunately he displayed it at the wrong place and time and was dismissed from the team. While he did have a few points on the year it wasn’t a loss for the team.
Shoe was a good backup, a CC guy and a transfer from MSU that played for Holtz there. There was a lot of loyalty to him for being the only Sr on the squad, but by no means is he irreplaceable. I think they guys coming up behind him are even more athletic, and his leadership void will be filled just fine by the 3rd year starting Juniors like Houtby and Hebden.
It think the bigger personnel story is that they bring back their leading scorer from 2010 in Joel Matthews and add tremendous depth to the midfield with the redshirted kids from the last class Wilson and guys from this class like Birney and Harper.
Anon, it’s amazing that you say there’s no UDM hype at the same time that you’re perpetuating it. Let’s be honest, the MAAC is the worst conference in D1. UDM’s close win against Siena is somewhat suspect (missing players?) given their lop-sided loss to the same team in the playoffs. Furthermore, Siena isn’t anything special. For you to predict a double-digit win for UDM over UM (as well as subsequent wins for another 2 years) would likely elevate the Titans to mid-level team status, which would surely be some kind of NCAA D1 record for building a program that quickly.
Let me be clear, I’m not trying to slam UDM. I think it’s a great thing for them to be the state’s first D1 team (since the former MSU program), and particularly for the Titans to be in the city of Detroit. At the same time, I’m not going to take part in Michigan-bashing in order to hype its in-state rival. It’s not a zero-sum game. There’s plenty of room for both teams to do well.
Actually JP is on record stating that although no official promises were made to recruits, there was a general understanding that there was a good probability that the team would go varsity sometime during the recruit’s tenure.
By the way, SS mids being converted to LSM is quite common in college. It happens all the time, at every program, so there isn’t any point there whatsoever. Furthermore, (word-of-mouth) Summer League stories count slightly more than alumni game tales but even less than Fall Ball.
CKLaxAlum,
Siena played their full roster in that game. They weren’t missing players. The game was also at Siena: http://www.detroittitans.com/custompages/Men%27s%20Lacrosse/2011%20Stats%20&%20Box%20Scores/det0402.htm
The game they lost in the conference finals was without Adams who was hurt the night before in the conf semi finals.
Not getting into this debate, just correcting your facts.
Also, Siena finished the season in the top 20 poll so saying it wasn’t a big win isn’t exactly correct:
http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1media/2011-06-01
Also, this game is UM’s first game, but not UDM’s first game of the season. UDM traditionally starts off the season with the first D1 game of the year and this year is no exception. They open up the week before at Delaware.
Great post MLer.
This is another reason why I’m not buying someone’s whole “UDM won’t be focused/too emotional” argument. After the schedule they will have already played getting a home game against a new team will be a nice change of pace for them.
No, even in the IL magazine you read a quote from JP stating that the recruits were told specifically they were recruited for the MCLA program.
Changing a SS to LSM isn’t that popular, changing a LSM to a SS is.
I would argue that the MAAC and NEC are both the two worst conference. However, their champions Siena (who detroit did beat, at home, and they started all of their All-Maac players) and MSM are both significally better teams than Michigan. So arguing that the conference is weak is moot, because the top of their conferences are both significantly better than Michigan–this year.
Changing to an LSM isn’t that unusual. One of my former players was recruited to play attack, and his Freshman year they switched him to LSM. Great athletes who can’t crack the lineup elsewhere get converted to LSM’s all the time, when a star LSM isn’t available. Similarly, LSM’s get converted to SS D middies when top SS D middies aren’t available. Most teams only carry a couple guys who specialize in those positions, so if injuries happen or whatever, it’s all about getting the best athletes available on the field. Not that uncommon.
Joel White was an attackman in HS who was converted to LSM.
Anon and CKlaxalum,
I can tell you’re both passionate about your respective teams. I think saying a 10 point blowout doesn’t give UM enough credit and saying 50/50 on who wins doesn’t give UDM enough credit.
The thing I keep saying is that UM will have a much higher ceiling, but UDM has a better head start. We’ll debate this for years (or until we get a 3rd D1 team) on who’s better/who’s best and hopefully get the answer every spring and they continue to play each other.
Ultimately, I see a lot of these kind of debates having more to do with personal feelings than anything else. People associated with UDM have a chip on their shoulder. Say what you will about their relative strengths and weaknesses, but they are the established D1 program. Yet being in the MAAC and coming from Detroit they get very little respect in the lacrosse world. UM has done nothing in D1 except start a new program, yet they are front page news with Dom Starsia saying they are the biggest thing to hit lacrosse in decades. Even here – a piece celebrating a strong (hopefully) UDM recruiting class has turned into a UM debate. (I cringed a little when Reg brought UM up at the end of a UDM article. Reg – I love what you do, but don’t worry about Michigan. Just celebrate Detroit!!!)
I’m a lacrosse guy who also happens to be a lifelong Michigan fan (family ties – can’t help it). I appreciate UDM for bringing back D1 lacrosse to our state, and I respect anyone who commits to build a program there with so many disadvantages compared to most other teams. It kind of echoes the Detroit city story, and most of us in SE Michigan take pride in that gritty, blue collar attitude. I hear people disrespect UDM because “they will never be a great program.” Who cares? They are already a great program in my mind.
I’ll be at the Feb 12 game of course. I’ll be rooting for Michigan to pull the upset, but I will not be discouraged if they lose by 1, 5 or 20. There is no real debate about where that program is headed. I’m just happy we now have two D1 teams in a state that had zero 5 years ago, and I give Detroit all the credit in the world for leading the way.
Reg, I don’t have a respective team in this argument, but I knew what you meant. I thank both AndyD and you for quality analysis on this issue.
Anon, clearly we don’t see eye-to-eye, and I will add another point of disagreement. I would rank the NEC as slightly better than the MAAC because the NEC has the higher ranked teams. Also note that MSM was previously in the MAAC and its champion (having beaten Siena). Furthermore, noting that a conference is weak is far from a moot point when evaluating the competitiveness of teams.
I can’t say who the best conference was, nor the worst. Ok, maybe I can say the ACC was best.
The only NEC team I saw last year was RM and that was their 1 goal OT win against UDM. And that was a young UDM team getting a 2 man advantage at the end of regulation choking. Flat out, they choked in that one. I read lax power, I see the box scores, but most of these teams I’ve never seen play. Even though I’ve never missed a UDM home game, I’ve never seen a UDM road game. There are just too many teams and not enough televised games for us to really call which conference is worst. I’m pretty sure Mercer was the worst team last year looking at their overall record, but at least I saw UDM smoke them 19-3 w/ my own two eyes.
People keep wanting to talk UDM/UM and I admit I brought it up in this post to say I didn’t have a lot of faith in UDM’s 49 ranking if UM is 48. That was the only point of reference on it. I’ve seen some of the UM fall ball games. They’re better than Mercer, but I’m not ready to say for sure how good/bad they are until I see them play a game w/ a full roster and they haven’t yet.
We’ve talked about LSM’s here, and I just found this video of UDM and it shows what a great LSM can do. I think this kid is the difference. UDM +1 because of Houtby:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W_S0Ltj2ps
He strips kids and scores. That’s hard to game plan for.
Make sure to mention the summer clubs these recruits played on, they are an important step towards their signings. I’ve been doing summer since 2005, it seems to be where these guys get most of their looks now.
Coach B,
We gave love to GP select in the recruiting review when we talked about Kurt Urbin. Going forward I’m going to try to work w/ the local coaches to make sure we get updates and post summer reviews of who’s getting looks.
Keep me posted on who you’ve got and I’ll write about them.
Feb 12 will be huge but Detroit will have nothing to gain but alot to lose…if they win they were suppose to and if they lose well you can guess what will be said….Hard to believe that Adams who i believe was the top scoring freshman in the country was not on the list….will he be ready for the spring?
Detroitlaxer, claiming that UDM has nothing to gain is an arrogant statement. This game will be in the national spotlight because it will be UM’s first official varsity competition. Remember (at this time at least) UDM is still an under .500, lower level program, in a weak conference, entering its fourth year of existence. The Titans have something to gain in every one of their contests.
Interesting find I just had (I’m a stat junkie). Detroit is the only team with two players in the top ten in any of the NCAA D1 published ranked stats. Go here:
http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/ranksummary?sportCode=MLA
Peruse through the stats.
Top two players from a single team in various stats (I left out goalie and face off stats because they are primarily single players on a team):
Points per game rank: Drexel with # 2 and 11
Goals per game: Mt St Marys with #6 and 15
Assists per game Marist with two players tied at #12
Shot percentage: Hartford #4 and #11
Caused turnovers per game: Detroit with #2 and #5 (Houtby and Hebden)
Not only are they in the top 10, they are both in the top 5, and they were both Sophomores.
Bodes well for Detroit.