In an awful turn of events, the Michigan-Detroit game that was suspended due to weather last night has been canceled.
The coaches couldn’t agree on playing indoors at Oosterbaan Fieldhouse (where Michigan and Penn State played on a legal-width field to open the year – though the field width was apparently the issue with the Detroit coaches), and with more storms expected this afternoon, couldn’t find a better time to reschedule.
Both teams next take the field Saturday. Detroit plays first-year program Marquette in Milwaukee, and Michigan hosts St. Joseph’s in Michigan Stadium.
Been off the fun parts of the internet for a couple of weeks. Work stuff came up that has had me scrambling and traveling (not that you’re worried, but I’m still employed). Did not go last night, partly because of the aforementioned issues and partly because of the weather forecast.
It’s a shame this game isn’t going to be finished. I’m sure all of the players would have loved to keep it going if the indoor option was actually available, but the coaches have their reasons (and it’s 100% up to them). I’m concerned that this rivalry doesn’t continue in the future. If it’s not important enough to find a way to play it, no matter the circumstances, then will it survive future scheduling? I assume that both schools would rather play non-conference games in the early part of the season. Up here in the north, that probably means playing indoors.
Is Michigan scheduled to play at Detroit next year? When? Early season? If that’s the case, will Detroit agree to play in Oosterbaan the following year (as other teams like Penn State and Loyola have)? Bigger picture, does this game even happen as a Detroit home game any more? How many Michigan teams play schools like Detroit as away games at all? I may be wrong, but it seems like they only play those schools at home. That’s typical of bigger school scheduling practices. Will lacrosse follow suit and only schedule Detroit at home? Is that a policy at Michigan that administration will require once the program is established? It will be interesting to see where this goes in the future.
For whatever reason, it seems like Detroit doesn’t want to play Michigan once it’s not looking like a guaranteed win (they don’t have problems getting their teeth kicked in by Ohio State and others, however). If that wins out, I would bet on the teams not seeing each other very often.
What I would like to see (what they should do, in all honesty) is a neutral-site game to open the season each year at Ultimate Soccer in Pontiac, or MVP in Grand Rapids (not sure if they have a spectator-friendly facility, but someplace like Gand Valley could work), etc. Somewhere indoors, tour it around the state like Michigan and Michigan State used to do in the MCLA days.
That wouldn’t be a bad solution, although Ultimate is not neutral. That’s basically Detroit’s Oosterbaan. Grand Rapids is a good idea. Completely neutral and gets D1 lacrosse to that side of the state.
Bold to say that UDM didn’t want to continue because they might lose. Do you have evidence of that or just a feeling? And really, what’s the harm to UDM if they do lose? Eventually everyone will expect UM to win these games. Even now, it’s not a conference game and they don’t really recruit against each other. Detroit is probably focused on the MAAC, as they should be. The chance of losing to Michigan should not be a priority, and I kind of doubt it is. Michigan is probably more focused on this game right now simply because they are so new and they see it as a realistic chance to win, which doesn’t come often.
I agree Andy… Michigan needed this more than UDM. UDM is in a conference where every game is winnable and they still have a shot to make the NCAA tournament. Michigan is not, and that comes from UDM being in a more appropriate conference considering school size, type, team talent, etc.
To say UDM was afraid of losing when they were up 4-3 and had the momentum is a bit of a joke. Please don’t compare playing in Oosterban to playing Ohio State at Woody Hayes. Michigan will get the respect when they earn it… And I don’t see them “kicking in” UDM’s teeth like some teams have done to Michigan themselves.
There’s more that comes into play than the weather and the small indoor field. UDM leaves tomorrow for Marquette and then has basically a play-in game for a conference tournament that’s up for grabs. Finishing a meaningless game against Michigan doesn’t fit into any of this season’s goals or the big picture. Unlike Michigan, UDM has wins and this wasn’t their only “Winnable” game of the year.
It’s sad to see that this is the “Super Bowl” to JP and the U of M lax world… It really shouldn’t be. I would be fine if this game doesn’t happen in the future as it shouldn’t be such a benchmark game to Michigan and it does nothing for Detroit in the MAAC.
LOL.
Bottom line Junior, both teams needed this game. Michigan to get a win…and UDM needs every win it can get. Both teams are in appropriate conferences, there was no point to be made there.
Likewise, to say UDM had “the momentum” in a 4-3 game with 11:30 to go in the 2nd qtr is incredibly premature at best. To your point about respect, both UofM and UDM will get it when they earn it.
UDM wasn’t UofM’s only ‘winnable’ game of the year. High Point and St. Joe’s also fall into that category.
UofM has played two nationally televised games (vs Hopkins at Homewood Field and vs Colgate at Citi Field…as well as another game vs Army at the Dolphins Stadium), so playing UDM is nice, but hardly the “Super Bowl” for the Wolverines.
On the contrary, this game isn’t “meaningless”, should happen in the future, and is important for both teams. 1) There are only a few other D1 instate rivalry games outside of the ‘traditional’ areas (Denver vs Air Force and Duke vs UNC [you could add Duke vs High Point as well]). 2) This is a “big-name” (non-conference) opponent on UDM’s schedule. 3) It’s good for lacrosse in the state of Michigan.
At this point, I’d say both teams needed each other equally but UDM needs Michigan a lot more going forward than Michigan needs UDM. Michigan will soon be on par with any team in the ECAC, and they’ll always have strong OOC games like PSU, Maryland, Rutgers and a handful of the Hopkins/Colgate/Army type games.
Michigan is a huge brand with a large fanbase throughout the lax hotbed areas, so as soon as we’re no longer a doormat (which should be very soon based on recruiting) top teams will want to play us. That will perpetuate recruiting and further separate UM and UDM. Not many years from now, UM lacrosse will look at UDM like UM football looks at EMU.
And yes, UDM has wins, so UM wasn’t their only winnable game, but that’s only because UDM scheduled winless VMI and fellow bottom-feeder Manhattan. I know, Michigan lost to High Point, but UDM has a far easier schedule than Michigan, so comparing wins in this case tells absolutely nothing.
I was in the tunnel when the coaches were discussing how to proceed. While it wasn’t made explicit that those were the reason UDM didn’t want to continue, it certainly gave off that vibe.
In all honesty, Oosterbaan does give UM some home field advantage, and probably particularly so when the warm up time on the field will be minimal. It doesn’t have white walls like many suggest, but I think the visuals throw teams off somehow. Holtz has played there before, so I’m sure he’s well aware, and I can see it being reasonable not to want to play there.
UDM was up 4-3, but the game was pretty competitive, and really could have gone either way. In a game as close as that was, you don’t want to give your opponent any advantage like that if you can help it.
BTW, I was once again very impressed with Houtby. He stands out to me compared to everyone else on that team.
Holtz has NEVER coached nor played in Osterbaan. Why people keep saying this I don’t know. Every game MSU/UM club game during his tenure was at a neutral site like EGR, Saline or Seaholm. The one time they faced off in the NCAA’s was a UDM win last year in Pontiac.
The thought that UDM is ducking Michigan if it’s not guaranteed is laughable. They agreed to a mid-week, non league, night game in the first place. Because of the weather they didn’t get the game in last night. Today both teams had players with academic conflicts, UDM is getting on a bus tonight for Marquette and Michigan couldn’t provide a facility that meets NCAA regs. Blame mother nature.
I would bet if the tables were turned and UM had the lead no one would be complaining that they are not going to finish this game.
Michigan and Loyola played on a regulation field in Oosterbaan last year. Michigan and Penn State played on a regulation field in Oosterbaan this year.
Loyola and Penn State may have agreed to play there and not enforce the 3 min non releasable, but that does not make the field regulation.
It was a regulation-width field. There were fewer bleachers than when Michigan played in Oosterbaan as a club team to make room for a regulation-width field.
It’s not regulation. As has been mentioned before, it’s 6 yards narrow (3 per side). This makes a difference in the ride game, and was a big home field advantage for Michigan back in the club days when they were 10 man all the time. They have not been 10 man much at all this year, so maybe not such a big deal now. It’s also an advantage to a defense that presses out, which is much more how Detroit plays than Michigan. Given these two teams, I don’t see the field size being a clear advantage to one over the other. I see playing inside in an unfamiliar environment being more of a factor, but really…every home stadium is unfamiliar to the opponent, and UDM practices indoors more than most. I don’t think the UDM coaches were looking for an out and dodging UM (that would be REALLY disappointing if true). I’m more inclined to think there was gamesmanship going on. “Nope Michigan – too bad – you had your chance and your backup field is not regulation.”
Back in the club days practicing and playing every day in Oosterbaan probably hurt Michigan more than it helped. It helped at home, for sure, but playing outside only 10-12 times a year on the road and in the tournament had to be a major adjustment when it often counted most. I wonder how much they’ve been outside this winter, given the weather we’ve had.
Bottom line, I stick by what I said above. UDM has every right to choose to decline the opportunity to go inside. The game was scheduled to be outside. Trading the opportunity to finish against Michigan for a focus on Marquette? I don’t know about that call. Again, I’m not in a position to judge. Might also have been other factors none of us know about.
And criticizing UM for emphasizing the UDM game is ridiculous. What else should they be emphasizing right now? They are winless. This was a game they could probably compete in. It’s an in-state opponent. Calling it their super bowl is probably an exaggeration in a 15 game season that includes the biggest rivalry in sports, but it should be very important to them. For now, with a new program, beating Detroit is a very appropriate goal.
I played against MSU in a scrimmage in oosterbaan when Holtz was the offensive coordinator. Who knows, maybe he missed that game. Not that it matters, as it would be a dumb thing to argue about. I just meant he is smart enough to know Michigan has an advantage there.
The combination of academic, travel, and weather conflicts are certainly the primary causes of the cancellation of the game. Any one of the reasons alone would suffice. However, UDM demanding a 3 min non-release penalty when Loyola and PSU didn’t is nit-picky and a bit of a secondary reason. In that regard, it would seem that the Titans want/need that type of added advantage in order to try to help get the win.
UDM is a great team, just have some things they could fix. The signees they have coming up next year are talented, with Kyle Beaurgaurd, and Alex Gilhooly being top attack men in the state. UDM recruits kids who have potential, they will be better next year due to their large freshman class this year. Patrick Masterson a defensive pole from Hill, Ben Gjokaj a faceoff middie just signed with detroit as well, they are recruiting kids with size and speed which is a good sign. To say UDM would’ve lost is fair, but I wouldn’t see it happening last night they have more experience. Needless to say UDM is still a good lacrosse school and I don’t see them falling to UM for a couple years.
It’s “dead week” in Detroit. Professors are forbidden to give tests this week, but they generally pile up work for presentations/projects/research/test prep. Exams are next week, but I hear “dead week” is the more stressful week. Understandable UDM wanted to give their kids some time to get the work done, since they’re traveling all this weekend.
I’m sure the same goes for UM.
Tim, were you in the tunnel at the beginning of the first lightning delay? I got a glimpse in from the parking lot; but I couldn’t make out what the UM coaching staff was doing with the Detroit players.
Some of the Michigan players started talking shit, it devolved into a shoving match. The Michigan coaches and some of the UDM players (mostly Jamie Hebden) broke it up pretty quickly.
It’s just a shame for our State, and especially for all the young kids from Lax leagues all over the state… This Spring has been awful weatherwise… I think playing a game indoors right now would do Detroit no good at all… I believe Coach Holtz was looking at what lies ahead for his team and they need some work to get to the MAAC Play offs…Detroit has not been practicing inside and none of their remaining games or play off games are inside… no need to face a team that will squeeze you or do something out of the norm because the field is smaller and has wierd sight lines… I would prefer them to play after the season as a make up…Detroit will know it’s fate soon and the NCAA should let them play… I thought it was shaping up to be a good game in a great venue.. Loved the replay boards… Also a great goal by Meter…he ripped it and cought the corner, he tried another shot like that and it missed the corner and ended up in Saline…Birney gets better every game, he as it all, speed, size and he has a laser shot… Fun to see him and others continue to develop… These teams need to continue this rivalry for our state and the kids and growing number of folks who love lacrosse… It was a blast… Also, hats off to Steve McNulty and John Conroy of Warrior Lacrosse who had their team play an Ann Arbor team before the game… those kids got quitte a thrill, and they hung in to watch the game…. McNulty and Conroy have a lot of kids on both teams who were on that field last night… They have developed some outstanding players both fundamentally, but also they have developed a love of the game that is great to see…It would be interesting to see how many guys those Coaches have playing in College right now…There are other coaches like them who were there from Our Lady of Good Counsel, (Rumor has it that Junior High Team has not been beaten in 2 years!) and a team in blue with 3rd and 4th graders in their gear at the game…Great to see… and Michigan, that set up is awesome… I hope the Coaches can get it together in the future and play this one on a weekend with a fall back day to make it up… It’s too important to the State… Houtby is better than advertised as
I was following the game on Game Tracker periodically and GT never mentioned the suspension of playing, so I was trying for 30 minutes to figure out why the site was frozen. Totally lame on GT’s part. The UM lax site didn’t have any info either last night, which was also lame. As to the decision to cancel, I wonder what the UD players wanted to do. I bet they didn’t have any problems continuing indoors.
If you were in the tunnel, as I was, then you were aware that when Coach Holtz told John that he didn’t want the game to be played on a non-regulation field, that John said ok. He did not argue that it was a regulation field, or even suggest that. One coach did mention a 3 minute non releasable for playing indoors, but it was only a joke as Detroit was never going to move indoors, plus it didnt come from the head coach so who cares what an assistant jokes about during a rain delay. Would love to see the game played out but it’s just not going to happen. For those of you who dont understand, the game cant be played after each teams last game because the schools would have to pay for the students to stay on campus until the game. Doesnt sound like much money, but Detroit’s operating budget is only 20k more than JP’s salary.
JK, there is no way that your financials on UDM are accurate. As of 2008, the average yearly cost to run both a men’s and women’s DI lacrosse program is about $1.25m (combined). The top men’s programs had a $1.5m budget during that time. Naturally costs have gone up in the past 5 years.
The “JP’s salary is 20k more than Detroit’s operating budget” is completely dumbfounded and not based on any factual information.
I don’t think JP is making 150k+…
JP’s university compensation is 103,000.
$206,000 per win? I need that contract.
the operating budget at udm, not including coaches salary (Holtz and Kolon), is ~125,000
I meant to say JP makes 20k less, not more, apologies
I wasn’t there, so I’m only going on what people say occurred. Based on that, it seems like the UD coaches wussed out from continuing to play indoors. My point is that, if the UD coaches had actually asked their players, I bet they would have wanted to continue to play the game indoors. If I’m right in my assessment, then the decision of the UD coaches was a disgrace. I stand to be corrected by those who witnessed the event.
I’ve seen a couple comments alluding to this, but can someone confirm? At the Penn State game this year, I thought I remembered that the sideline was extended past the football lines, giving the full 60 yard width (opposed to the 53 and 1/3). This would make it regulation, no? Maybe those were temporary lines, that have since been removed and would not be possible to re-paint in the short term?
Yes, Michigan and Penn State played on a full regulation field this year. I don’t know why others keep trying to say that wasn’t the case. The field in Oosterbaan was in the process of being prepared/painted Wednesday night to play when the game was suspended (and ultimately canceled).